tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6414605374460799291.post2021687753593043805..comments2023-03-31T00:17:57.460-05:00Comments on AP Language: Devil Final: #11AP Lang & Comp Bloghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09941289627717157873noreply@blogger.comBlogger43125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6414605374460799291.post-61533752575491243012013-06-03T22:48:20.979-05:002013-06-03T22:48:20.979-05:00I believe that it took so long for holmes to be br...I believe that it took so long for holmes to be brought to justice because he was one of the first serial killers to have existed. In a time when people hadn't experienced crimes to the degree of today they would have never thought one person could be so cruel as to lure women to his hotel and kill them. in chicago at this time people were just used to the "usual" murder of a person who had done another person wrong, but they would only kill that one person and they would have a reason for it. whereas holmes killed almost at random and had no reason other than that he enjoyed it. and so without this understanding of what people can really be capable of they trusted holmes because he had not given them a reason not to. in addition the police at this time were not as vigilante as they are today purely because they didn't anticipate this type of a killer or thought that one person was capable of so much murder. people during this time were very trustworthy. i feel like the only person at fault for all of this was holmes himself. if he hadn't been the way he was there wouldn't have been any murders in the first place. the people and police around him were just dealing and reacting to the situations in the best way possible. because they had been taught that they can trust other people until they did something that denies them that trust. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02336096597039729886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6414605374460799291.post-25072480104693558612013-05-23T12:16:51.484-05:002013-05-23T12:16:51.484-05:00I believe that Holmes wasn't caught so quickly...I believe that Holmes wasn't caught so quickly because serial killing and the crimes that he committed weren't very known back in this time period. No one really knew much about mantal illness. Everything about what Holmes did was new. The way he moved around from place to place after he committed a crime was a clever way to clear his path. Society didn;t have all the knowledge and technology that we have today. It was harder for people to communicate from city to city and they didn't have the things they do today. Today everyone has to have an ID and social security number and better records than they do toay. No one ever suspected things like this and that's a lot of the reason Holmes got away with it for so long. I think that they even caught Holmes was a surprising thing especially during the time of the World's Fair.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09343303088423864048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6414605374460799291.post-65900595187014169302013-04-08T19:47:28.317-05:002013-04-08T19:47:28.317-05:00I agree with all of you that Holmes was not caught...I agree with all of you that Holmes was not caught due to the time period. I would like to add in by saying that our system of protection for the citizens are at fault. They had plenty of oppurtunities to catch Holmes that they never used. People died due to the idea of the time period that a mass murderer would never happen. The innocence of this time period is to blame.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15924150005513093657noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6414605374460799291.post-39205113323303323672013-04-08T17:45:16.696-05:002013-04-08T17:45:16.696-05:00Nice job outlining your response, I like that you ...Nice job outlining your response, I like that you listed several factors concerning the topic!AP Lang & Comp Bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09941289627717157873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6414605374460799291.post-85500249335319483022013-04-08T08:02:36.734-05:002013-04-08T08:02:36.734-05:00from Paige A.from Paige A.AP Lang & Comp Bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09941289627717157873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6414605374460799291.post-83862925909439933652013-04-08T08:00:10.550-05:002013-04-08T08:00:10.550-05:00David, I agree that Holmes was a sharp and clever ...David, I agree that Holmes was a sharp and clever man and this prevented him from being caught at the proper time. However, do you really think the people with suspicions were really just "lazy and brainless" or do you think they had other reasons for not involving authorities? Do you think they were just afraid to say something? One of Holmes wives, I think Emeline Cigrand, seemed to catch on at the very end, and Holmes seemed to figure this out and dispose of her extremely quickly. Maybe more people did realize what Holmes was up to, and he killed them before anyone else could become suspicious. I also wonder if Holmes would have become such a psychopath if the timing was different. Do you think if Holmes was forced to become even more careful, he would slow down the rate of his murders? Your response is very accurate, it just raised a couple of questions in my mind!AP Lang & Comp Bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09941289627717157873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6414605374460799291.post-81769118256826415092013-04-07T22:31:56.391-05:002013-04-07T22:31:56.391-05:00Jon, I agree with the claim you make. You backed ...Jon, I agree with the claim you make. You backed it up really well and with a lot of evidence. I liked how you gave the example of how hard it would be for someone to find evidence of Holmes or give evidence to the police. I agree that it would be very tedious to hunt down criminals during that time and during the fair would be even harder. However, you only mention that it took Holmes so long to be caught by lack of profile identification and amount of people during the time. Do you think any other factors contributed to Holmes' elusiveness? For example, do you think Holmes' charm or intelligence had anything to do with it? I agree that the technology at the time was not the best but could anyone be a serial killer, or would you still need careful planning, charm, and a bit of luck? Overall, I still agree that the lack of technology was indeed a huge factor but perhaps there were other large ones as well.Jeffrey Tenghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04124069672802501787noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6414605374460799291.post-30678306112057905892013-04-07T22:18:10.213-05:002013-04-07T22:18:10.213-05:00Jared, you raise a great point that Holmes probabl...Jared, you raise a great point that Holmes probably would have been caught much sooner had people known he was so shady. Holmes was treading unknown waters. Many people weren't aware of the possibility of a serial killer being present at all. Many did know of Jack the Ripper and his gruesome acts but it had been almost unheard of before that. You also brought up a great point with the charm that Holmes brings to the table. He could basically talk his way out of any situation. Just like you said, he would have had a much greater chance of getting caught had anybody actually interrogated him. You brought up some solid points in your response and I couldn't agree with you more.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01557421073994139380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6414605374460799291.post-28055499291013273852013-04-07T22:16:40.409-05:002013-04-07T22:16:40.409-05:00What I'm wondering is, why was the idea of ser...What I'm wondering is, why was the idea of serial killers such a foreign concept? Surely there had been psychopaths similar to Holmes throughout history, unless Holmes was a product of his own environment- the industrial era. I think that in a lot of ways Holmes's operation in Chicago was deeply enabled by the times, and less by Holmes's psychopathic nature. I would disagree that no one was at fault, because like you said, people started to become suspicious of Holmes, but they ignored this feeling. While police forces were knew, they did exist. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03569913364577486290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6414605374460799291.post-63682139288305939322013-04-07T22:16:03.789-05:002013-04-07T22:16:03.789-05:00What I'm wondering is, why was the idea of ser...What I'm wondering is, why was the idea of serial killers such a foreign concept? Surely there had been psychopaths similar to Holmes throughout history, unless Holmes was a product of his own environment- the industrial era. I think that in a lot of ways Holmes's operation in Chicago was deeply enabled by the times, and less by Holmes's psychopathic nature. I would disagree that no one was at fault, because like you said, people started to become suspicious of Holmes, but they ignored this feeling. While police forces were knew, they did exist. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03569913364577486290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6414605374460799291.post-3213011994152051322013-04-07T21:23:32.740-05:002013-04-07T21:23:32.740-05:00I really like your point that no one was looking f...I really like your point that no one was looking for Holmes. That's the exact reason he wasn't brought to justice for so long. He choose his killings carefully, at least at first, and he disposed of the evidence efficiently. He always picked someone that would have a logical reason to leave Chicago. How do you think that we as a society could learn from Holmes success? It seems as if he could have gone on for longer if he didn't get lazy at the end of the story. This story reminded me of a complex movie where the antagonist is fascinating due to his genius and slick ways. jon spechthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17640854593764180183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6414605374460799291.post-50008667999304965212013-04-07T19:45:39.474-05:002013-04-07T19:45:39.474-05:00Mimi-I completely agree with your reasons for why ...Mimi-I completely agree with your reasons for why Holmes wasn't apprehended sooner. Society changed so quickly during the Guided Era, way faster than old institutions such as the police force could adapt to. The idea of each victim being a separate case is right on, too. Holmes also killed in a way that didn't leave clues. There were no guns to obtain for evidence, no footprints in the forest to follow to the body. He was very good at what he did, and the police weren't used to cases like this, especially multiple cases at a time. I also agree about the impressive amount of information gathered about Holmes by the end of the case. Holmes wasn't exactly cooperative during his time in prison (this is obvious from his memoirs), so the amount of information Geyer an his associates were able to gather solely from other people and the pieces of the puzzle that Holmes had left is really immense. .Libbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12235292916224383526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6414605374460799291.post-56931768317966775412013-04-07T08:35:05.532-05:002013-04-07T08:35:05.532-05:00I really like how you mention the lack of technolo...I really like how you mention the lack of technology. Most of us all know that Holmes was a crazy smart and charming guy, but we never talked much about the other things that made it easy for him to get away with everything too much while we were in class. I also like how you mention that it was the time period. The only other previous serial killer was jack the ripper, and he wasn’t even from the states. It really makes sense when you say that the people had no idea how to handle it because they had never experienced it before. Mentioning the FBI being in its infancy was also good. There was really no way for anyone to catch this guy. I think it had to do with “disposing” of his helpers too, or disposing of people who would’ve/ could’ve gotten in the way. Like Pietzel. Or the numerous wives he killed after he married them. What would’ve happened if he kept a wife? I also think fear was a big motivator to why people didn’t report Holmes. I remember Nate warning one of Holmes’s new catches about him, but not reporting him. And the neighbors that suspected him of killing not reporting him. People were afraid. Good Post Kerstin! :]Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10551326908958301367noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6414605374460799291.post-17162553174608784102013-04-06T13:54:48.970-05:002013-04-06T13:54:48.970-05:00You had a great response, Grant!! Your points abou...You had a great response, Grant!! Your points about the lack of record-keeping technology really made sense. It made me realize that it must have been really easy to get “lost” in Chicago during that time. That probably explained why Holmes could kill so many people and get away with it. In the last few sentences of your post, you sorta talk about how Holmes was caught because of fraud. You allude to how money was more important than people back in that time. Well, that was really interesting! I really had never thought about it that way. I guess it sorta portrays the money-centered views that many of the industry people had during that time. Do you think people hold the same view today? And if so, to what extent? It makes me think about assassins or hitmen. They kill people for a price. I guess that sorta reflects the same idea of how people would prefer money over human life. Finally, I have one last question. If Holmes had never committed fraud or he had never been caught committing fraud, do you think that he would end up being exposed for his crimes? Or would he have still been able to keep killing many more people? Once again, it was a really good and eye-opening blog post Grant!Jiweihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08021527980791896129noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6414605374460799291.post-6078279983022732082013-04-05T21:40:54.097-05:002013-04-05T21:40:54.097-05:00I Completely agree with you with almost everything...I Completely agree with you with almost everything written. It was for the most part the peoples fault for not making an effort to find out what was wrong with their family members. The insurance agents especially were at fault because they did not pursue Holmes with full intent. But the lack of technology and knowledge of serial killers also may have been a factor on why he was not caught right away. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05096821714128287611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6414605374460799291.post-1725153880432229682013-04-05T21:40:28.084-05:002013-04-05T21:40:28.084-05:00Jeff-
I think you covered almost every possible po...Jeff-<br />I think you covered almost every possible point on why it was possible for Holmes to commit the crimes he did! Holmes's personality was indeed a big part of it because he was so charming. His personality perplexed people. But beyond that, it was all about the timing. You hit the nail on the head with the points that at the time serial killers were unheard of, as well as the fact that technology was undeveloped and police forces were not used to such crime. And of course the fact that Holmes's crimes occurred during a very busy time for the world, the world's fair. I have to agree that it was a combination of many factors that allowed Holmes to get away with as much as he did. To an extent though, I have to say a lot of it was just luck. While his wit and charm played a big role, if it weren't for the World's fair and the business of the city at the time, he wouldn't have been able to go unnoticed. In this way Holmes was lucky, to say the least.Faradis Lindblomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18044135012436773390noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6414605374460799291.post-52101698860965484002013-04-03T20:39:41.039-05:002013-04-03T20:39:41.039-05:00I really agree with all of your points, Jeffrey. I...I really agree with all of your points, Jeffrey. I feel like you really covered a lot of the possible explanations that this question asked for, and you really backed up your response with stuff from the book. I do have a question regarding your response though. I was just wondering about your opinion on this: which factor do you believe played the biggest role in helping to keep Holmes go undiscovered for so long? Do you think that one of those factors stuck out and perhaps contributed to Holmes’s killings more so than any of the other factors? Also, I was intrigued by your point about how news spread slower and was harder to come by. Do you think that the public’s knowledge on events (such as Holmes’s killings) was distorted because of how slowly the news spread? Or do you think that the public was given more accurate information because news sources took longer to spread the news? Basically, I’m sort of just wondering if you think that the rate of the news reporting affected the bias and/or accuracy of the news being reported. But other than those questions, I agree completely with your response!Jiweihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08021527980791896129noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6414605374460799291.post-4548523766917731732013-04-03T18:08:09.486-05:002013-04-03T18:08:09.486-05:00Sure, in today's society Holmes would have had...Sure, in today's society Holmes would have had to take extra precautions, but he would have been capable of doing so with ease. That's just who he was. Today's criminals are no different than Holmes, except that they aren't as drastic. Maybe this is just my problems with authority talking here, but there are any number of killers active at any time, and no improvements on technology will stop them. Even with today's fancy technology, people continue to kill each other. If Holmes had lived during our times, he would have adapted perfectly. Aside from a few adjustments and having to change his hunting grounds, Holmes would have still managed to kill many people.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11930319504807698263noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6414605374460799291.post-72624790425438749432013-03-29T20:59:09.286-05:002013-03-29T20:59:09.286-05:00I agree with Brittany when she points out his pers...I agree with Brittany when she points out his personality. He was a lot smarter than an average person and had the skills to deceive and trick others. He obviously had a lot of natural wits and smarts and used them the wrong way. People back then didn't see this very often so they didn't know what they should be looking out for. He kept up with his lies so well and always had an answer so no one expected anything wrong from him. Krista 1https://www.blogger.com/profile/09968486894754664026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6414605374460799291.post-59680157045747397932013-03-28T23:23:11.268-05:002013-03-28T23:23:11.268-05:00No one is at fault for why Holmes wasn't caugh...No one is at fault for why Holmes wasn't caught. During that time, no one expected someone to be capable of everything that Holmes was. They probably didn't have many cases of mass murders and killers. And Holmes was a unique character. Not just anyone could pull off the things he did, it takes a certain kind of crazy and Holmes was just that kind. Holmes went outside of the norm where people wouldn't ever dream of accusing someone of murder. He used this to his advantage and therefore was able to get away with everything. The time period and people not expecting it wasn't the only reason Holmes got caught. Like I said it takes a crazily intelligent and maniacal type of person to do what Holmes did. You have to admit Holmes was good at what he did. It may have been killing people, but he was still skilled at it. He knew how to win people over and get them on his side. He got all these people to trust him and then when they completely adored him, he turned on them. When the people kept disappearing Holmes had to keep lying, digging himself in deeper and deeper holes. The lies kept piling up, it's a wonder he was able to keep all of them straight but he managed. And was also able to make his lies sound credible. You'd have to be a very good liar to make the people believe what you're saying and not be skeptical. Holmes succeeded at this for quite some time. All in all, the reason why Holmes wasn't caught for so long was a combination of Holmes' amazing talent at charming and tricking people, and also the fact that people were not expecting something like that could ever happen. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16220611629380473711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6414605374460799291.post-534978388788382202013-03-28T23:09:55.939-05:002013-03-28T23:09:55.939-05:00The reason it took so long for Holmes to be finall...The reason it took so long for Holmes to be finally caught were due to several factors. One was because of his personality and wit. Holmes at a certain charm and charisma about him that allowed him to do things without attracting any attention and get away with many things by sweet talking. For example, he lured many young women to his hotel and killed them almost unnoticed. Even when he was just about to be executed, the guard admitted it wasn’t easy to kill him. Holmes's personality affected almost everyone and it allowed him to commit his crimes much easier than someone who acted crazy on the outside. Another reason why it took Holmes so long to be caught was his intelligence. Holmes carefully plotted out his next move so he was always prepared in what to do. This allowed him to execute his plans perfectly so almost nothing could go wrong. He even managed to move three parties at once without them knowing what was happening. He almost got away with his crime and believed he had removed almost all evidence if it wasn’t for the letters of Prietzel’s children. Serial killers were almost unheard of during this time which also could have been a factor to Holmes’s elusiveness. No one would have expected someone to just start killing people for fun and Holmes used this to his advantage. The time period of Holmes’s killing was perfect for him. The Chicago Fair was bustling with people and killing a few people here and there would not spark much attention. Chicago was already a city filled with crime and the police had enough to deal with as it was. Finally, the lack of technology and communication also attributed to Holmes success. Back then, it was much easier to forge identifications and to go about unnoticed. There was no internet, TV, and cell phones so news spread much slower and was harder to come by. Holmes covered his evidence very well and combining this with the lack of technology and communication, it was practically impossible for Holmes to be discovered. Therefore, it was a combination of many factors including the time period that resulted in the long time it took for Holmes to be captured.Jeffrey Tenghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04124069672802501787noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6414605374460799291.post-15378775841659575532013-03-28T22:19:11.835-05:002013-03-28T22:19:11.835-05:00Holmes’ apprehension took as long as it did becaus...Holmes’ apprehension took as long as it did because of the rapid expansion across the board that took place during the time period. Rural areas were becoming larger and denser, population shot up, crime increased, and criminals increased. Society had been accustom to smaller, more familiar, even more honest times. When this sudden growth occurred, the police and law force were still operating under those older principles. This is why, when they were confronted with a case as extensive as Holmes’, they were unable to unify. (In fact, they mightn’t have seen the need.) As objective readers who are privy to the plot line, it is obvious that “mysterious” deaths and disappearances are linked directly to Holmes. This is because we group all the women he killed as “his victims”. Police at the time would have seen each woman as a separate case, a connection not being as evident. The lack of technology and strategy would also have impeded the investigation.<br />This stated, no one is at fault for the occurrences, except perhaps Holmes. Yes, the police did take a while to catch onto his dealings (fraudulent, murderous, or otherwise). However, considering the time period, it is rather impressive the amount of information that was discovered at the end. Holmes could not have killed forever; some circumstance was bound to stop him. The question, therefore, was not if Holmes would be caught and stopped, but whether or not justice would be given. The end he met and the truth unveiled were pretty significant given all the other circumstances.<br />MEllerthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14496975448407748343noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6414605374460799291.post-52351815957048985412013-03-28T21:28:32.081-05:002013-03-28T21:28:32.081-05:00It is sometimes hard in our day and age to realize...It is sometimes hard in our day and age to realize how difficult it was to obtain information in a time period such as the nineteenth century. There were no computers, no comprehensive databases, no modern filing systems, not even a decent registry. Even with all our access to information, it is still quite possible for people to just up and vanish in places as busy as Chicago. So, back in the days of yesteryear, an event such as the Chicago Word's Fair was a prime location for missing persons. So much foot traffic went in and out of the Fair and the city each day, that a person not being heard of for a while was a forgone conclusion. Not only that, the lack of any coherent registry for peoples' locations was a huge hindrance to nay locating efforts. Nowadays, we can track card purchases, security camera footage, calls made, and all manner of other sources to find the potential location of people. Then, if a person was missing, the most advanced method to find them was a picture on a milk bottle. Even with the ease of getting lost and the difficulty in finding, Holmes covered his tracks very well, even by modern standards. He disposed of the bodies so no one would find them, dissolving them in quicklime or incinerating them, or even getting another clueless man to sell the skeletons. He had a network of aliases to cover his tracks for any purchases he might make, or letters he might send. He was nice, charming, and handsome, and what he couldn't get through guile or crocodile tears he could often get by wit. His late capture was not a result of any lapse of care on anyone's part; the environment that Holmes did his work in was a perfect storm. In fact, the way he was caught was by fraud, which, having to do with money rather than human life, was of much more interest to the powerful people. Grant Sandersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04817250780976819839noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6414605374460799291.post-4074947128168379022013-03-28T19:57:10.011-05:002013-03-28T19:57:10.011-05:00Holmes wasn’t caught for a lot of reasons. Not onl...Holmes wasn’t caught for a lot of reasons. Not only was he really smart about charming his way out of sticky situations but he also used the lack of technology to his advantage. <br /> Holmes charmed everyone. Not only did he charm his victims into falling for his web of lies but he also charmed outsiders into believing that he was a trustworthy guy. Because people did start questioning him but they never really found anything or he would in a sense talk them down from the ledge. <br /> The fact that this time period wasn’t ready for a true serial killer also played into it. Before Holmes people rarely killed a lot of people. So police officers of the time had no idea how to deal with it. Also the FBI was in its infancy so there wasn’t a countrywide way to handle Holmes yet. Even if there had been the technologies couldn’t handle it. They were just too slow and disconnected to handle such a case during this time period.kerstinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11499743801511435130noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6414605374460799291.post-30047339249802864182013-03-28T19:47:20.462-05:002013-03-28T19:47:20.462-05:00I fully agree too. Not only was the sciences of th...I fully agree too. Not only was the sciences of the time not ready for a serial killer but the police network wasn’t either. Like how Geyer had to have a new partner in every town and the information didn’t really travel from location to location. Now that would never happen, they would stay in contact via cell phone or email. <br /> Also I agree with what you said about Holmes using his charm to get away with it. He totally uses the lack of advancements to his advantage. kerstinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11499743801511435130noreply@blogger.com